Bill Shorten on speculation he will move to federal politics

Here is a transcript from ABC TV's Lateline Program where AWU National Secretary Bill Shorten was interviewed by Tony Jones on recent developments within the Labor Party and the way forward.

TONY JONES: So what's Bill Shorten say about his purported move to Canberra? He joined us in our Sydney studio just a short time ago. Bill Shorten, thanks for joining us.

BILL SHORTEN, NATIONAL SECRETARY, AUSTRALIAN WORKERS' UNION: Pleasure, Tony.

TONY JONES: Now, does Dean Mighell's new faction in a way realign the political planets in Victoria? Does it open the way for a radical restructuring of the Labor Party in Victoria?

BILL SHORTEN: I think the realignment goes back to 9 October when the Labor Party federally suffered such a shocking defeat and a lot of unions are now thinking the unthinkable, which is to stop the old arguments about left and right in the Labor Party and focus on what to do to protect our members now that John Howard controls the Senate. So this is definitely a significant development, one which hasn't been seen in Victorian Labor in many years.

TONY JONES: What does it mean, though? I mean, what does it mean is going to happen as a result of this?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I think the sun will still come up tomorrow morning. I think that perhaps the development or the consequences will take time. Genuinely, at the next federal election a lot of workers and a lot of unions are saying, well, they want to see Federal Labor form a strong argument to be able to do something about the unfair industrial relations laws. I predict there will be some renewal and I also predict that perhaps the Labor Party will stop engaging in mindless factional infighting and instead look at what's in the best interests of workers and working families.

TONY JONES: OK, but this is a chance, is it, to redefine Labor politics?

BILL SHORTEN: I think there is an opportunity. Labor hasn't won a federal election since 1993. I think Kim Beazley has come back with a renewed view on what to do and I think it is important that after four federal election losses and indeed, the catastrophic loss of the Senate where now we see John Howard proposing all sorts of very tough anti-family laws and industrial relations, there's a big opportunity here for Labor to find some new blood to help complement and supplement the existing performers.

TONY JONES: That's going to begin in Victoria, is it, that process of finding new blood?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I think that all over the country - and I travel all over Australia in my job as the AWU secretary - there's a lot of people saying, "We don't like John Howard," "These industrial relations changes are causing great concern."

TONY JONES: But do you need a new team to fight him, is that what you're saying?

BILL SHORTEN: No, I think there's plenty of good players on the frontbench now, but it is always important - as you would in any Grand Final - that you bring in some new blood to complement the experienced heads that are already there.

TONY JONES: Alright. Well, Dean Mighell has been absolutely clear today about one thing - there needs to be, as you've said, renewal, new blood. The instant analysis is that Bill Shorten is on his way to Canberra. Is that right?

BILL SHORTEN: I'm interested in politics but at the moment, the most important fight which I'm engaged in is to make sure that our members and their families don't get done in by some of the tough laws which the Howard Government's proposing to pass through their Senate. So what I do is not the key issue. What I am certainly -

TONY JONES: Well, it's one of the key issues that arises out of what's been said today, let's put it that way. The preselection battles begin in Victoria in October. Are you going to be part of them?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I don't think they will start in October. I think that what's important here is that - just as Kim Beazley's kicking out on the front foot in terms of what to do about industrial relations, just as the ACTU and all the other unions are running quite a good campaign, I think, with their television ads and their community campaigning. Also, a range of unions are saying all this factional fighting, all these labels - "left" and "right" - what's important? And I guess it's funny for me to say this but I have to thank John Howard, because he's done the unthinkable - he's uniting the left wing, the right wing and the chicken wing to get behind changing governments in Australia.

TONY JONES: Alright. But you're new blood, aren't you?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I'm 38-year-old blood and I think what's really the goal in this scenario is can we get some new candidates - and I think that's important - but also, what's the message they're going to carry? And the message that the Federal Labor team's got to carry is industrial relations, the changes to workers' circumstances -

TONY JONES: Alright, but let's just focus on you for a moment, because Dean Mighell has specifically said he wants you to go to Canberra.

BILL SHORTEN: Mm.

TONY JONES: You're part of the new blood he's talking about. Are you part of the new blood that should go to Canberra?

BILL SHORTEN: At this stage, I'm not running for preselection. It's very flattering of Dean to give me a pat on the back -

TONY JONES: Everyone says "at this stage" - what does that mean? Does that mean this week, or next week, or not this year? Are you ruling out a run for Canberra?

BILL SHORTEN: No, I don't think anyone who's seriously interested in politics can ever rule it out. But what is important is the fight for the Howard Government in terms of industrial relations laws is not about individuals. The trick for the Labor Party is to dump some of the personality fights of the past and get on with the main game. Part of that is having people who can really put the front foot forward in terms of politics in Canberra.

TONY JONES: Well, you're one of those, aren't you?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, Dean has said that, and that's very nice of Dean. I think Dean Mighell is on the front foot, I actually think Kim Beazley's doing a good job. So there's a range of people.

TONY JONES: But everyone knows that Dean Myles is a close friend of yours. He's suddenly done this radical move to create a new faction, effectively, and then he's come out and said he will support a push to send you to Canberra. That's effectively what he's saying. Now it's hard for anyone to believe that you haven't spoken to him about this. Have you spoken to him about this before this happened?

BILL SHORTEN: What we have spoken about - and we've spoken a lot since 9 October - is that the Labor Party's lost control - not lost control of the Senate, but the John Howard's gained control of the Senate. What we've spoken about is the need to make sure that the voices of workers are heard strongly in Canberra. The changes that are happening are serious changes. The loss of meal breaks or penalty rates - these are serious issues, and certainly Dean is, I believe, motivated by saying that some of the old fights - the Labor Party in Opposition has sometimes been more interested in fighting itself than providing a serious alternative to the Howard Government. What I think Dean's trying to do is break through some of the old politics, get some new politics going, reflecting what workers are saying. "Can you guys in the Labor Party stop fighting each other "and get on with opposing John Howard?" I think that's what he's showing some leadership about.

TONY JONES: Yes, but you've said yourself that "There's a time for renewal, for new blood - "this is it." Isn't it time for you to admit that you're part of that?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I'm actually going to say that I'm not the key issue in renewal. I think there's plenty of people who could have a good go in Canberra. We hear Mike Fitzpatrick's name mentioned, the former captain of Carlton. He's a very accomplished person. We hear the dot.com entrepreneur's name of Evan Thornley, he's mentioned. There's some pretty good people who'd be interested in making a contribution and that is the key issue. What Labor needs to do is it needs to bring in some new candidates from a range of callings, a range of occupations who, if you like, can appeal to people who are not voting for Labor at the moment.

TONY JONES: Alright. Are those people you've spoken to, with a view to getting them to go to Canberra?

BILL SHORTEN: Personally, I've had discussions with both of them and I think they'd be both good candidates. Whether or not they choose to do it, I suppose is up to them.

TONY JONES: Alright. It's reported - and quite widely reported - that your faction will be targetting six seats in Victoria. Now that's six sitting Labor members. Is that true or not true?

BILL SHORTEN: I think the talk of targetting all these MPs is not true. I think it is legitimate at this point in the electoral cycle - no-one has a job for life, and it's important that we make the tough decisions. How do we get the best blend of people? We want - in the AWU, we want people to vote for the Labor Party. We need to convince 50 per cent plus one of the electorate. Clearly, after four election losses, there should be an opportunity to perhaps take some people off the bench and give them an opportunity to play on the field. That's important. But I think some of the talk of these sort of 'blood on the wall' preselections is completely over-hyped.

TONY JONES: Alright. Well, stop me if I'm wrong, because these are the MPs that are widely reported to be under threat, not only by journalists, but by people who are backgrounding journalists within the party. Alan Griffith in Bruce - stop me if I'm wrong on any of these - Harry Jenkins -

BILL SHORTEN: I have to say, Tony, the hypothesis of the question isn't correct.

TONY JONES: Alright.

BILL SHORTEN: What's important is that in the Labor Party, everyone comes up for preselection. To say that there's a hit list, though, is purely speculative. A lot of these people have made great contributions over a period of time. I just don't believe that it's sensible, appropriate, or indeed the right thing to start talking about individuals.

TONY JONES: In public?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I'm actually going further. I'm saying that the preselections haven't been set. It's the right of any Labor Party member to run for preselection. But what I will say is that the current caucus are working very hard so there's always an inevitable tension.

TONY JONES: Alright, but here are the ones - Alan Griffith in Bruce, Harry Jenkins in Scullin, Gavan O'Connor in Corio, Ann Corcoran in Isaacs, Maria Vamvakinou in Calwell and finally Bob Sercombe in Marrynbenong. These are the people they've been talking about. You'd acknowledge that, wouldn't you? These are the names that are coming up time and time again, in reports and in the background briefing to journalists?

BILL SHORTEN: I don't have a crystal ball, and I have to say that a lot of those people - all of them make contributions, so it would be completely unfair of me, and also not what we're about in the Labor movement, to say, "X is in and Y is out." What is important is that the Labor Party is starting to get serious about opposing the Howard Government. When you can have traditional rivals of the left and the right in the industrial movement, saying, "Listen, we've got to do something to look after workers." That's what's important. I think the rest of the personality stuff, frankly, is just fish and chip wrapper material.

TONY JONES: Well, until the preselection process starts, you're right about that, but when the preselection process starts you're going to have find places to put those people you've been talking to, and indeed yourself, seats which are presently occupied by Labor members. That's true, isn't it?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I guess my response to that, Tony - and you've been around politics more than I have and you're a very seasoned journalist - is that the game of gossip is not one which promotes the Labor Party. What I think is important - I think there is a lot of interest in the media about factions. On Tuesday, everyone can say the Labor Party fights itself too much, and on Wednesday, they would say the Labor Party needs new blood. I suppose my message is there's factions in everywhere.

TONY JONES: Alright, but when will the process of bringing new blood into the Victorian Labor Party begin?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I think that the opportunity to bring new blood comes at preselections and I think there'll be plenty of conversations. There are a lot of sensible people in the Labor Party.

TONY JONES: When does that start? Because we thought that started in October.

BILL SHORTEN: Well, the dates haven't been set for preselections. I imagine - one thing's for sure - they'll happen before the next federal election, sooner rather than later. The game in town for the Labor Party along with what the unions are doing is to provide a serious united opposition to the Howard Government on their workplace changes. That is the game in town for us and I think what the union movement is saying across the spectrum is that when mum can lose her shift rates or when dad can have his penalty rates taken off him, we need to ensure we've got articulate advocates standing up for workers in the Labor caucus. That's all I think you can deduce from today's announcement. The rest remains to unfold.

TONY JONES: So there won't be, come preselection time, a "night of the long knives" effectively, because the way it looks now is the numbers are stacking up against a number of sitting members.

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I think the issue of factions exists in all organisations. Apparently there's been quite a kerfuffle in the ABC over Sally Loane and others moving on.

TONY JONES: Stick with the Labor Party for a moment. We can see what's happened. The planets, as you admit yourself, have realigned. The possibility is there to bring in new blood. It has to happen.

BILL SHORTEN: I've got no doubt that there'll be new blood coming in. There is a legitimate frustration at the performance in the last four elections. Having said that, that is an inevitable process and I've got no doubt that the Labor Party will focus upon how to combat the Howard Government's control of the Senate. Part of that will be bringing new blood in. I'm afraid it's not any more exciting or any less exciting than the inevitable performance of a football team - bringing some new players onto its list and some other players being dropped from the list.

TONY JONES: Bill Shorten, we'll have to leave it there. We thank you very much for taking the time to come and talk to us tonight.

BILL SHORTEN: Thanks for the interest, Tony.

Transcript from the ABC Lateline Website.