Labor warned not to forget taxpayers

The following is a transcript from the ABC TV Insiders Program interview with AWU National Secretary Bill Shorten.

The Australian Workers Union national secretary Bill Shorten says Labor is right to try and broaden its appeal, but should not forget the pay-as-you-go taxpayers.

BARRIE CASSIDY: The national secretary of the Australian Workers Union has written an essay for the Fabian Society which we will be releasing next month. Bill Shorten, good morning.

BILL SHORTEN, AUSTRALIAN WORKERS UNION: Good morning, Barrie.

BARRIE CASSIDY: First of all, on Mark Latham and what he's been saying about the new middle class or the self-employed contractors, is he on the right track there?

BILL SHORTEN: I think that he's right, to the extent that the way people work has changed. However, there's still nearly eight million Australians going to work who pay tax, as pay-as-you-go taxpayers. I think that what he's doing is reaching out and trying to broaden our base but we need to be careful that we don't forget the taxpayers.

BARRIE CASSIDY: One of the points you make in your essay is that Labor's losing some of the people out in the suburbs, in a sense because they're being scared off by the left-wing intelligentsia, is that right?

BILL SHORTEN: I think that the old model of the simple left/right politics doesn't quite describe what's been happening in the last few elections. Or in other words, there are issues which the left-wing intelligentsia have and the right-wing intelligentsia have, which they share in common.

They have got a view about global trade, they might have a view for and against the just treatment of refugees.

But what's happening is there is a lot of other people in the suburbs and provincial centres who are experiencing record-high levels of debt.

Their credit cards are maxed-up, they have big mortgages.

They want to know from both Labor and Liberal, will our jobs be secure? Will we be able to afford the lifestyle to which we've become accustomed? I think that that's the group which we need to engage with.

MISHA SCHUBERT, THE AGE: Bill, Misha Schubert from 'The Age', a lot of Labor's policies at the election were essentially about playing off one group of Australian society against another group and presenting this as some sort of heartland Labor response, how do you think that approach went with the sorts of people you represent in your union constituency?

BILL SHORTEN: The Australian population has an on-off love affair with the Labor Party. It is the oldest political party in Australia. And to that extent, people do like to hear Labor talk about Labor values.

But what is also necessary, is to avoid getting caught up in the politics of envy.

I think it is entirely possible to have progressive left-wing views on a range of issues.

But what I also think is important, is that we send a clear message to people who live in the outer-suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney and to provincial centres, that if you have a dream to have an intact marriage, to go to church on Sunday, to have a mortgage, to want to send your kids to a private school, then the Labor Party of the inner-city doesn't look at you disdainfully.

That's an honourable dream. And we have to send that message, we respect it.

GREG HYWOOD, FAIRFAX: Mr Shorten, you're talking about the Labor Party needing to re-engage with the economic debate. Mark Latham is talking about the new economy, you're talking about a new economy with people working differently. How does Labor translate that into policy change? What's the rub here? What has to change, in terms of the way Labor handles economic policy?

BILL SHORTEN: Candidly, it wasn't just interest rates that lost the last election. What lost us the election, was that people didn't trust us with the economy and we didn't seem to be talking about some of their values.

I think, that there is a coherent Labor doctrine which says that we live in a market economy, we respect the pursuit of private investment profit.

But what we also say is that in order for everyone to have an equal and fair go within the market, there needs to be some form of the fair go.

Recently, for instance, I know at the Australian Workers Union, my union, was involved in helping chicken growers, not a traditional friend of unions, to help get collective bargaining rights against two or three chicken processing companies in Victoria.

I just think that there's opportunities to ensure that contractors get a fair go in the market through some sort of minimum collective safety net.

GLENN MILNE, NEWS LIMITED: Bill Shorten, I'm going to slip into anecdote here. My daughter broke a leg last week and so I was in the hospital, and she was coming out from under the anaesthetic and I was chatting to the wardsman about politics. And he was saying to me that he'd been a Labor voter all his life but this time around he was really worried about his share portfolio and Mark Latham. Which surprised me. How do you bridge that gap between the unionist and the shareholder?

BILL SHORTEN: Most of our members have superannuation which was an achievement of unions and the Hawke-Keating governments. So all our members are engaged in the market.

In addition, when all is said and done, if the US current account deficit continues to balloon, if Chinese economy comes off the boil, what we are left with in Australia, is do we have a productive economy?

There's plenty of role there for the Labor Party to make sure that we have a productive economy based on cooperative relationships. So I think, there is a very straight-forward bridge.

But what the Labor Party has to be willing to do, is to proudly announce that we can move to the centre, not be a pale imitation of the Liberals, but say we stand for a big economy which doesn't leave anyone behind.

BARRIE CASSIDY: I know that when the word got around the Victorian conference yesterday, that there was this move-a-foot to shift the Labor Party to the centre, Dean Mighell for one, was on television last night saying "Well, look out for a fight".

BILL SHORTEN: I don't think it is a case of either/or, what is great about the Labor Party, in part is its union connections and in part, its respect for the underdog and for Labor values.

But what I think we need to do is to recognise that the role of the Labor Party is to form governments. We've been very successful at the State level and one tip to the federal parliamentary party, is perhaps they should deal with a little more respectfully the successful State Labor governments.

But what I think we can do, is make it very, very clear, that we want to appeal to the majority of Australians, not just talk to true believers in the inner-city.

BARRIE CASSIDY: And just one final question. And this question is often raised too. When do you think Bill Shorten will chase a federal seat? What is the answer to that?

BILL SHORTEN: I've recommitted for another four years in the Australian Workers Union. So, it is not a priority at this stage.

But I do think that we lost the election on October 9, it is important we don't lose it again by going into this sort of theory that but for a little bit of tweaking at the margins, we would've won the election. That isn't true.

People want the Labor party to be united behind Latham but they also want us to make sure we do learn the real lessons of this election.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay, thanks for your time this morning.

BILL SHORTEN: Good on you.

Transcript from the ABC.