Insiders

Transcript of an interview with AWU National Secretary Bill Shorten on the ABC TV Insiders Program.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Yesterday the Financial Review raised the question: "Is this the man of the future for the ALP"? The artcile referred to Bill Shorten who, at 35, is the national secretary of the Australian Workers Union. You rarely see his name mentioned without the word "ambition" attached to it. But right now he is in the thick of a potentially career breaking row within the Victorian branch of the ALP. The Labor Unity faction, over the years the cradle of Bob Hawke, Simon Crean and Steve Bracks, has split. The party's federal president, Greg Sword, has taken his union out of the group, fracturing the once solid power base. Not good news for Simon Crean - but this certainly is: Bill Shorten is the first significant union leader to back the Opposition leader's efforts to reduce to 50 per cent the number of union delegates and Labor conferences. This is a seen as welcome break after weeks of resistance. As a union leader yourself, why do you say that Simon Crean is right to reduce the influence of the unions?

BILL SHORTEN: In every generation the Labor Party will get an opportunity to modernise. We have not modernised our rules since the late '70s. Trade unions, trade union members know, that there are issues which unions cannot influence on the ground. We need a Federal Labor Government to introduce things such as paid maternity leave, a better entitlements package. Simon Crean needs to modernise the party and there needs to be some realism amongst the trade union movement that 50-50 sends out a message of balance, it acknowledges the trade union legacy and the values of 2 million people who belong to unions but it also lets Simon Crean get on with the job of beating John Howard.

BARRIE CASSIDY: How much support is there within the trade union movement, apart from yourself, on this?

BILL SHORTEN: I think that there is quite a mood of realism amongst trade unions. I think that there's really two aspects of the debate. On the one hand it is important, I think, that the Federal Labor Parliamentary Party says unions are important and they are a valued contributor. What they stand for are values consistent with the Labor Party. But on the other hand we need to be able to demonstrate that we do not think we are the only opinion in town, that indeed we need to take a step and be seen to allow the Federal Labor Parliamentary Party to be able to put the best coalition possible together to defeat John Howard.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Can he win on this at the national conference?

BILL SHORTEN: I've got no doubt that Simon Crean will win on 50-50 because it is not the only practical issue. What we need to do is overhaul the party structures. I think Simon Crean presents us with an opportunity. If we can modernise the way the Labor Party functions, attract younger people who are not joining organisations, we will have leapt out of the box ahead of the Liberal Party.

BARRIE CASSIDY: But what is wrong with the party structure? What is the one big, significant problem?

BILL SHORTEN: I think there's a lot of people are disillusioned with politics. What we need to do is have a transparent structure, one which everyone can see is balanced. I think we need to find ways to encourage everyone to participate and reform branches and the way they function.

BARRIE CASSIDY: There could be an early test of your influence, and your support for 50-50, in fact. After a few hiccups there will be a vote, as I understand it, for President of the Labor Party in Victoria. Are you still intending to run?

BILL SHORTEN: Certainly. The real issue is not who wins or loses the Presidency. What is important is that there is seen to be a mood to modernise the party, to recognise the value of the trade union links and all of the significant candidates are trade union officials. I think what we need to do at the end of this debate in Victoria, the current disruptions, we need to be able to signal that we support Crean's methods to modernise and 50-50.

BARRIE CASSIDY: But it is important, though, isn't it, in this sense - with you running, and you are up against Jim Claven from the Socialist Left, this will be a test of your support for 50-50 and if you lose it will be difficult for Simon Crean.

BILL SHORTEN: The debate to modernise the party - that train has already left the station, it will happen. Certainly you would rather win than lose, but I think that some of our difficulties in Victoria are as much generational as they are about modernising the party. There is a lot of consensus to try to modernise the party and get behind Simon Crean.

BARRIE CASSIDY: What is this split all about in Victoria? Is it a personality clash between the old bull, Greg Sword, and the new bull?

BILL SHORTEN: I'm not sure I would say it is all old bull. But in each generation of politics, today's young Turks will become tomorrow's old Turks. There is an element of generational frustration. I also think that we have now been in opposition - we've lost three Federal elections in a row and I think people are very keen to try and make sure we win the next elecction.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Those who support Greg Sword maintain you personally, you do not accept power sharing, especially when it comes to preselections.

BILL SHORTEN: Well, that's why I'm certainly happy that if we can bed down some of the current instability in Victoria, whether we're the ones who are called senior Vice-President or vice-president, that is just a title. I think now is the time, with the recent events in Victoria, that we see a bit more - if you like - mature behaviour from all points of view and we work out some sort of power sharing arrangement. Winner-take-all is bad for any political party at any time.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Greg Sword, to use his words, has taken his union off to a neutral corner, but it appears he wants to knock somebody out just the same and that somebody could well be your friend and the Victorian secretary of the party David Feeney.

BILL SHORTEN: I think this current spate of instability has seen more unnamed sources backgrounding more journalists than perhaps in the history of the free press. think the real issue here is the state secretary is a very successful campaign director, has excellent links with the big end of town and corporate fundraising. I can't see the Premier...

BARRIE CASSIDY: Is that his problem?

BILL SHORTEN: I think a modern political party needs to be able to talk to everyone. Just as we need to keep the unions in we also need to be able to raise funds. I can't see the Premier particularly wanting to see his campaign director taken out within 12 months of an election.

BARRIE CASSIDY: If you were to withdraw from your candidacy for the presidency, would that help David Feeney?

BILL SHORTEN: Who knows, but I think the point is that when there are people of goodwill, we will get through these issues. I think that the message that all of the parties need to be saying in Victoria, all of the groupings, is that we have to support Crean's modernisation.

BARRIE CASSIDY: What is the impact of all of this on the parliamentary party and Simon Crean first of all? I mean, he is up to his elbows in problems with internal party reform. It can't help him at all.

BILL SHORTEN: Simon Crean will get there on 50-50. As I said before, I think that train has left the station. What will be important is creating national rules which allow all the branches of the Labor Party to operate in the same fashion and attract more people to the ranks of the Labor Party, both unionists and other people.

BARRIE CASSIDY: But Steve Bracks, the Victorian Premier, might be facing an election by the end of the year. There is some suggestion that his caucus might split in the same way the Labor unity faction has split. Again, that is not helpful to a parliamentary leader.

BILL SHORTEN: I think the parliamentary party understand what's at stake. We have one of the healthiest state economies in Australia, the Bracks Government is performing very well in the electorate. Now is the time for people to take stock and not engage in some sort of hubris of assuming that we will always automatically be in government. Every election the voters want us to explain why why people should vote for Labor. The arguments are there and I'm sure Premier Bracks should be re-elected and a bit of discipline will be important to that.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Can I ask you about your own political ambitions? At what birthday are you going to declare your political future?

BILL SHORTEN: I'm 35 at the moment and enjoying being involved with the AWU and our members. There is a big job to be done in modernising a trade union. Perhaps to take a leaf out of someone else's book when I'm 40, I might look back and see what I want to do then. I understand that is the time of change in people's lives.

BARRIE CASSIDY: So you're not in a hurry.

BILL SHORTEN: Not in a hurry. The trade union movement still has a lot to do for its members.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Just finally, many of your members in the AWU are rural-based, labourers, shearers, miners. With the PM in the US for trade talks now what do you hope that he comes back with?

BILL SHORTEN: I think the issue of trade - there are two or three points to be made. The first one is that the modern union movement has as many members working in export industries as working in domestic industries, so we understand the importance of a sensible trade policy. Bilateral trade in itself, a bilateral trade agreement is not an anathema, it is not in the little red book as being prohibited. On the other hand, we would caution Mr Howard, don't go to Washington, get a signed letter or some sort of process which allows you to come back with the trophy to suit some sort of post-retirement biography. What we need is - we can't have a trade agreement with the US unless all the ingredients are resolved, including agriculture. The Americans have just passed one of the largest protectionist US farm bills in their history and we can't afford to forget agriculture as part of any trade deal.

BARRIE CASSIDY: You could be speaking for the NFF, no agreement without agriculture.

BILL SHORTEN: You need to
have agriculture. It is an area where Australia is highly competitive. It is no good, if you like, doing the easy things with the Americans and leaving the hard issues, because as we have seen the American farm lobby is very influential and persuasive and unless we have agriculture wrapped up in the trade agreement I'm afraid we will have given away what leverage we have and get little in return.

BARRIE CASSIDY: Thanks for your time this morning.

BILL SHORTEN: Thanks, Barrie.