Paul Howes on Meet the Press
19 May 2009
AWU National Secretary Paul Howes appeared on Channel Ten's Meet the Press program on 19 May 2009.
MEET THE PRESS PRESENTER, PAUL BONGIORNO:On Friday the Australian Workers Union unveiled a plan to save Australia's steel industry. The union warns if steel manufacturing is allowed to collapse up to 500 thousand jobs will be put at risk and it makes the point steel jobs can be green, windmills and solar farms for example all need the product. Welcome back to the program, AWU national secretary Paul Howes. Just going back to your earlier role as founder for Labor for Refugees, do you believe that the tone of the debate is again requiring for people to speak out more strongly for refugees as you did back in 2002
AUSTRALIAN WORKERS UNION NATIONAL SECRETARY, PAUL HOWES: Well, it's been a long time since I've been described as refugee advocate but certainly it's worrying to see a lot of the tone and language being used, particularly by the Opposition, in regards to the latest incident off the North West Shelf. I think it's important to remember that after the child-overboard scandal, after Sivex, after Tamper that Australia actually made great progress in terms of moving away from this hysteria about border security and the threat of the hordes from the north. I'm disappointed to see that it seems to be creeping back in and we should always put this in perspective. We're not talking about huge amounts of people. We're not talking about border security threats to our nation. Does anyone really think that al-Qaeda or organised crime syndicates are actually using these leaky boats from the Indonesia to infiltrate our country? Of course not.
PAUL BONGIORNO: One of the big arguments of course is that these boat people will take jobs and we do have rising unemployment. Does it concern you as a union leader?
PAUL HOWES: Absolutely not. Immigration is as core component in terms of job creation. Large scale immigration in previous times through Australia's history has created employment. I mean, when immigrants come to our country, they are not just sitting doing nothing. They are spending money, they are building homes, they are living their lives in the community and they are creating economic activity and economic prosperity and immigration, I think, is a net positive in terms of job creation.
THE SYDNEY MORNING HERALD's MARIAN WILKINSON: Paul, you have been very critical of the government's carbon pollution reduction scheme but also critical of its stance, in a way, on climate change. Do you think climate change is going to be a big political issue at the next election?
PAUL HOWES: I think in the next election the main issue is going to be jobs. I think that the economic crisis that we are in at the moment hasn't bottomed out I think it will get worse. I think we will see rising unemployment throughout this year. I think we will see large scale closures across major industries and I think that that will be the major political issue addressed at the next election. I think climate change will take a backseat to that and I think that's just the reality of what the electorate is thinking about at the moment. Certainly as I go around the country and have my discussions with my members and members of the community, it's not the number issue that's raised anymore. People are feeling concerned about their ability to provide for their families and I think that will be the major political issue being played out at the election.
MARIAN WILKINSON: But do you think union leaders like you are rather out of touch with some of the sentiment, especially in the marginal seats, when we just saw last week that a major survey of Australian opinion still put climate change above fears of China and fears of terrorism as a top order priority.
PAUL HOWES: Absolutely. I think that's right in terms of fears over border security and I think that the general world population's view on border security have decreased substantially but I don't think that would rate above economic security. I don't think it would rate above fears people have, particularly in regional centres and in carbon intensive centres, about their own jobs. And if you look at a region say like Gladstone, in Queensland, I remember going there 18 months ago and no employer could get any labour they needed and now you've actually had the complete turnaround where you're seeing massive unemployment. We saw Rio Tinto lay off 750 people in the town and you see great fears in regions like that about the region's economic security but also its viability as a good place to live and to raise your family.
THE DAILY TELEGRAPH's MALCOLM FARR: The government is dealing primarily with the global economic crisis rather than climate change crisis and part of that is a campaign against protectionism, to re-open trade. You, essentially, are arguing for protectionism for Australian-made steel. Not much chance that is going to survive, is it?
PAUL HOWES: I'm not arguing for protectionism. Free trade and opening up our trade barriers has provided enormous benefits and wealth for our steel industry but what we need to do to keep this industry alive in the next little while is to stimulate as much demand as possible to keep the blast furnaces alight and operating and the best way to do that is through ensuring that when we develop these Government-funded infrastructure packages that we procure Australian-made steel and Australian-made aluminium for those projects. It's not about introducing tariffs, it's not about putting up trade barriers, it's not about breaching WTO guidelines but it's about creating as much demand as quickly as possible to keep those blast furnaces alight, so when the global credit crunch alleviates and activity comes back into the economy, that those steel plants will be available and up and running and be able to sell our steel products to the rest of the world.
MALCOLM FARR: So what's the next issue, you argue between renewable energy and steel production?
PAUL HOWES: Well, steel is as green as the wind. You can't build windmills, you can't build solar thermal plants, you can't build geo-thermal station plants and pipelines without steel. It's one of the ironies in this debate. Too many people talk about renewable energy as being a replacement for old industries, or carbon intensive industries. It's carbon intensive industries which make the products which are used in lightweight planes, aluminium for example, polyethelene is used for water tanks and still be used for wind power. Wind power is the most steel-intensive form of power ever and that gets lost in the debate and if we don't make it here in Australia, we will be making it in jurisdictions where the carbon output per tonne of steel is far greater than what we have here in Australia already.
MARIAN WILKINSON: You've gone to the wall really arguing about the emissions trading scheme and its impact on jobs and yet, you yourself said, when push came to shove with Rio Tinto, when they needed to cut back jobs when production was down, they cut them back regardless of any emissions trading scheme. Is it really fairly marginal the impact of the emissions trading scheme, compared to the economic downturn?
PAUL HOWES: Well, I do not support the green paper but the white paper does provide mechanisms for appropriate levels of compensation for emissions intensive trade export industries. What Rio Tinto is doing is playing political games with its workforce to try and force the Treasurer to approve the Genalco deal. People shouldn't confuse what Rio Tinto is doing with the economic crisis. Rio Tinto is a company that is governed by a board that is not interested in its shareholders, not interested in its workforce, not interested in what it actually produces, it's just interested in self-preservation and that's what Rio Tinto is doing and the reason why it is cutting jobs is to put pressure on to get their stinky deal with Chinalco approved as quickly as possible.
MALCOLM FARR: What sort of political impact might the government's emissions trading legislation have in areas around Gladstone, as you've mentioned, in the Illawarra, where there is a huge steel plant, even in the Hunter, where there are a lot of coal mines?
PAUL HOWES: Well, I'm confident that the emissions trading scheme, if it's designed in the right way, will actually do plenty to protect jobs in our economy and also save our environment in the long term. If we get it wrong and if the Greens, for instance, were to have the say that they wanted in the scheme, I think we can look at seats like Flynn and seats like Throsby and traditionally safe Labor seats in those industries being under threat, but I don't think the government is going to do that. Everything that Penny Wong has been saying, everything that the Prime Minister has been saying is on the right track.
PAUL BONGIORNO: OK. Thank you very much. Sorry to cut in so harshly there. Thank you very much for being with us Paul Howes and thank you to our panel, Marian Wilkinson and Malcolm Farr. Until next week, goodbye.
All electoral matter is authorised by Paul Howes, National Secretary